As we did before, please choose 1-2 quotations that give us insights into the philosophy of Oscar Wilde. Aestheticism. The artist's purpose. Religion. Facts. Beauty. Read your classmates' responses and come up with something fresh. There is a lot of ground to cover, here.
Feel free, of course, to comment on the plot and your feelings and reactions to what is taking place. Those feelings will be connected to the larger whole that Wilde wants us to experience.
I look forward to your responses.
I look forward to your responses.
In chapter four, Wilde adds a comment that I feel really reveals his views on artists: that good artists exist only to create art. He already introduced the idea that artists put their soul into their work when Basil and Lord Henry talked in chapter one, but now Wilde takes it to another level, saying that great artists exist only for their art, that it contains their soul, and that they themselves are boring and insignificant. Lord Henry makes a comment about Basil putting his soul into his art, and then says that, "Good artists exist simply in what they make, and consequently are perfectly uninteresting in what they are... [A bad poet] lives the poetry that he cannot write. The others write the poetry that they dare not realize." Those who are and live 'art' cannot express it, since, as Aestheticism states, all bad art comes from returning to Life and Nature. When people try to use their experiences and their ideas then their art isn't good, where as the boring, almost life less artists that create art for arts sake can create masterpieces. It's almost as if Wilde is saying the art is their 'soul', because in real life they don't seem to have much of one. What may be more interesting is what this says about Wilde as an artist. Would he see himself as a good creator who exists only in his art, therefore uninteresting in life, or as someone who lives their art and cannot create a great work?
ReplyDeleteWhen the Duchess when she asks about going back to being youthful Lord Henry tells her "To get back one's youth, one has merely to repeat one's follies." he also says other intresting things obout mistakes " As it was, we always misunderstood ourselves and rarely understood others. Experience was of no ethical value. It was merely the name men gave to their mistakes. Moralists had, as a rule, regarded it as a mode of warning, had claimed for it a certain ethical efficacy in the formation of character, had praised it as something that taught us what to follow and showed us what to avoid. But there was no motive power in experience. It was as little of an active cause as conscience itself. All that it really demonstrated was that our future would be the same as our past, and that the sin we had done once, and with loathing, we would do many times, and with joy." this sates that it doesn't make a difference if you make mistakes or not no one will really learn form them and change their ways so there on such things as mistakes. he goes on to say that it will also happen with sins. these statement sound irresponsible and pretentious like is saying he better then the people who think about their mistakes.
ReplyDeleteIn the chapter I read for this blog I also agree with Morgan that Wilde has shown a different view on what good art is. It’s not just the work that they make that makes it famous. Its whats in there soul and their emotion and how they feel. If they are feeling happy or sad or even going through a tough time like Dorian Gray had a bad past history. Dorians mother, a noblewomen eloped with a poor soldier. And the women’s father a villainous old lord, arranged to have his daughter’s husband killed just before Dorian was born. “The only artists I have ever known who are personally delightful are bad artists. Good artists exist simply in what they make, and consequently are perfectly uninteresting in what they are. A great poet, a really great poet, is the most unpoetical of all creatures. But inferior poets are absolutely fascinating. The worse their rhymes are, the more picturesque they look. The mere fact of having published a book of second-rate sonnets makes a man quite irresistible. “ Lord Henry also insists that one’s life should be spent appreciating beauty and seeking out pleasure rather than searching for ways to alleviate pain and tragedy. He states that “I can sympathize with everything”
ReplyDeleteIn these two chapters, the influence Lord Henry has over Dorian Gray becomes more evident, and Lord Henry’s purposes are revealed. On page 33, Dorian is speaking with Lord Henry’s wife, and remarks that “I never talk during music – at least, during good music. If one hears bad music, it is one’s duty to drown it in conversation,” to which Lord Henry’s wife responds “Ah! that is one of Harry’s views, isn’t it, Mr. Gray? I always hear Harry’s views from his friends.” My dislike for Lord Henry has only increased in this reading, for now his thoughts are Dorian’s, instead of Dorian having his own thoughts and ideas. Later on in the chapter, Lord Henry’s thoughts about Dorian are exposed, as he thinks “It was clear to him that the experimental method was the only method by which one could arrive at any scientific analysis of the passions; and certainly Dorian Gray was a subject made to his hand, and seemed to promise rich and fruitful results.” To Lord Henry, Dorian is nothing more than a test subject, while Dorian believes him to be his greatest friend and ally. The whole thing seems to be a ruse that will only lead to more trouble as the book goes on. It seems that Oscar Wilde’s philosophy is one that cares not about others, but only for one’s own gain and personal interests, if in fact Wilde is talking as Lord Henry’s thoughts.
ReplyDeleteThe further I read, the more of an interesting character Lord Henry becomes. His hypocrisy in the entire spiel about how all influence is immoral, followed by influencing Dorian as much as he can just to see what happens is interesting, even if he’s immoral it makes him all the more interesting to read about. There’s a particularly interesting passage, “He played with the idea, and grew willful; tossed it into the air and transformed it; let it escape and recaptured it; made it iridescent with fancy, and winged it with paradox.” Not only does it have absolutely gorgeous imagery separate from anything it conveys, I think it also gets at a sort of extreme and perhaps twisted aestheticism Lord Henry follows. He creates and toys with an entire new philosophy of age and youth, playing with it merely for the joy of it, creating something to enthrall others without regard for value or accuracy of any sort. The rest of the passage further reinforces this, but it feels redundant to type it all out. I can also start to see how Oscar puts some of himself into all of his characters, what he feels as an artist in Basil, as a socialite in Lord Henry, and so forth. Another line displaying Lord Henry’s perhaps extreme aestheticism is “What matter what the cost was? One could never pay too high a price for any sensation.” which I feel sums up what we’ve seen of him quite nicely.
ReplyDeleteLord Henry is the clear antagonist of this story. He is using Dorian for his own amusement, and seems to be intent on influencing him until he becomes a copy of himself. What worries me is this new relationship that Dorian has with Sybil, and how Lord Henry will react. Henry says that “certainly few people had ever interested him so much as Dorian Gray, and yet the lad's mad adoration of someone else caused him not the slightest pang of annoyance or jealousy. He was pleased by it. It made him a more interesting study.” A normal psychopath who was enthralled with Dorian Gray would feel jealous, but Henry is not, and that is scary. It feels like Henry wants to test this relationship to see the effect that it has on Dorian. Knowing Henry this will include debauchery of all kind. He does not see Dorian Gray as a friend, but as a test subject. HENRY said that “He had been always enthralled by the methods of natural science, but the ordinary subject-matter of that science had seemed to him trivial and of no import. And so he had begun by vivisecting himself, as he had ended by vivisecting others. Human life—that appeared to him the one thing worth investigating.” I predict that Henry will ruin Dorians life for a science experiment.
ReplyDeleteIn the two chapters we learn more about what Lord Henry considers is "art." Lord Henry feels that a real artist is someone that puts in their soul into their work, not who the artist is personally. He says this during his conversation with Basil starting with "Basil, my dear boy, puts everything that is charming in him into his work. The consequence is that he has nothing left for life but his prejudices, his principles, and his common sense. The only artists I have ever known who are personally delightful are bad artists. Good artists exist simply in what they make, and consequently are perfectly uninteresting in what they are. A great poet, a really great poet, is the most unpoetical of all creatures. But inferior poets are absolutely fascinating. The worse their rhymes are, the more picturesque they look. The mere fact of having published a book of second-rate sonnets makes a man quite irresistible. He lives the poetry that he cannot write. The others write the poetry that they dare not realize." Lord Henry also said that he can "sympathize with everything except suffering.", and that one should sympathize with the joy and beauty of life.
ReplyDelete"I can sympathize with everything except suffering," said Lord Henry, shrugging his shoulders. "I cannot sympathize with that. It is too ugly, too horrible, too distressing. There is something terribly morbid in the modern sympathy with pain. One should sympathize with the colour, the beauty, the joy of life. The less said about life's sores, the better." When Lord Henry says this it makes me think he sounds like a sociopath, because it seems like he belittles the suffering of other people. It is true that if people ignored suffering and pain then people would be more happy, but that is not how suffering and pain works and that is not a valid solution to a real problem. Lord Henry and his views on the world seem to be blinded by his perception of art and beauty, going so far as to ignore the suffering of other people because of it.
ReplyDeleteIn chapters 3 and 4 of the Picture of Dorian Gray, we find out that Lord Henry has more interesting opinions, that seem to disturb some of the other characters in the book. We find out that Lord Henry is a sexist and even somewhat of a sociopath. 'Human life—that appeared to him the one thing worth investigating. Compared to it there was nothing else of any value. It was true that as one watched life in its curious crucible of pain and pleasure, one could not wear over one's face a mask of glass, nor keep the sulphurous fumes from troubling the brain and making the imagination turbid with monstrous fancies and misshapen dreams.' Near the end of chapter 4, however, we learn that there is nothing more valuable to Lord Henry than a human life, which may be one of his controversial views that I agree with. Although he has a science based thought process, human life has a value above anything else and that seems like reasonable view when looking at art and the beauty of life.
ReplyDeleteAs we proceed in the book, I’m starting to see more and more of Wilde’s self in the novel, especially through Lord Henry, as he seems to provide much of the insight and charm that Wilde would wish to express. I think the aesthetics are pretty clear in the imagery throughout the book so far. Even when things are ugly, they hold their own sort of beauty, like the eastend theatre and the man who brought Dorian into the theatre, with his quirky sort of beauty. On the other hand, there is a duality to Wilde’s belief in beauty and the superficial. We have seen the way Lord Henry seems to talk, and although he speaks of such immoral things, he also speaks of beautiful and very arduously intellectual things. This is where I see Wilde in the novel, especially in Lord Henry’s discussion of an artist, saying, “Good artists exist simply in what they make, and consequently are perfectly uninteresting in what they are. A great poet, a really great poet, is the most unpoetical of all creatures. But inferior poets are absolutely fascinating. The worse their rhymes are, the more picturesque they look. The mere fact of having published a book of second-rate sonnets makes a man quite irresistible. He lives the poetry that he cannot write. The others write the poetry that they dare not realize.”(54) Originally I had thought that Basil would be the character to embody Wilde, as the artist who is supposed to see the world unaltered. However, Lord Henry, the cynical charmer himself, seems to see things so much more clearly than any other character though he shrouds his clarity is immorality. I look forward to see the development of his character as we begin to learn more about him and Dorian particularly as Dorian seems to reflect Henry’s ideologies. However, as Henry continues to study Dorian, I suspect we will learn more about the man himself. Remember “It often happened that when we thought we were experimenting on others we were really experimenting on ourselves.”(58)
ReplyDelete-eileen
What I discovered in these two chapters is that Wilde incorporates aestheticism in several different ways. First, he shows it with the characters, who all appear to be charming and lavish in their own ways (such as the party of elite socialites), as well as being able to speak handsomely and with great wisdom (such as Lord Henry). Like Eileen had mentioned, Wilde also seems to showcase his own philosophies with Lord Henry's. In Chapter 3, Lord Henry explains the idea of aestheticism, stating that "there is something terribly morbid in the modern sympathy with pain. One should sympathize with the colour, the beauty, the joy of life". Evidently, this reflects Wilde's beliefs, seeing how he believed that surrounding oneself with artistry makes life more interesting. Wilde additionally merges aestheticism in with his physical descriptions. This could be shown at the beginning of Chapter 4 as he describes Lord Henry's library as "a very charming room, with its high panelled wainscoting of olive-stained oak, its cream-coloured frieze and ceiling of raised plasterwork, and its brickdust felt carpet strewn with silk, long-fringed Persian rugs...". Wilde's vivid descriptions all seem to capture a state of beauty. One could make the prediction that Wilde included these as he believed it made the book more rich and compelling.
ReplyDelete-Jill
For my this section my quote is "Lord Henry had not come in yet. He was late on principle, his principle being that punctuality was the thief or time." Although this really wasn't an integral part of these chapters it was a quote that really stood out to me. I'm a huge advocate for being on time and hate to be late. I'm the type of person who will arrive ten minutes early just to avoid being late. Even being on time makes me feel as is I'm uncomfortably close to being late. However, if I'm playing devil's advocate, I can see Lord Henry's point. Always striving to be on time does use up a lot of time. Especially if I am doing something unfavorable, like homework, and am going to be leaving to go somewhere I like, like to soccer, I will deliberately leave very early. I end up wasting SO much time doing this. I let punctuality take over and get places nice and early, I'm essentially never late, but also put off doing things like homework, by leaving for places early, like nobodies business.
ReplyDeleteEllie Yates
DeleteIn Chapters 3 & 4, Oscar Wilde continues to use Lord Henry to be the voice of his own views. He has Henry state at one point that “A great poet, a really great poet, is the most unpoetical of all creatures. But inferior poets are absolutely fascinating. The worse their rhymes are, the more picturesque they look. The mere fact of having published a book of second-rate sonnets makes a man quite irresistible. He lives the poetry that he cannot write. The others write the poetry that they dare not realize." This is another almost direct tenant of Aestheticism, in that one must be a work of art or create great works of art. On a side note, I think it will be interesting to see what will happen with Dorian’s engagement to Sibyl Vane.
ReplyDelete-Matthew Hebert
In Chapters 3 and 4 of The picture of Dorian Gray I have to say the conflict makes me cringe. The book so far has been written in a way that I feel shows of what is going to happen next. I feel as when the aestheticism is produced the story becomes more predictable. Now the conflict really has picked up which has peaked my interest in the book. My dislike for Lord Henry grows he is like a stain of black ink on dorian. Dorian was an innocent white cloth that ink was spilled upon. In these chapters Harry had dorian over to his estate and they speak of many things and harry fills dorians head of his ideas. “that is one of Harry’s views, isn't it?” (harry's wife). It troubles me to know that Dorian is going to end up making mistake sin the book because of Harry's ideas, it made me want to put the book down in denial. I think little demonic traits are shown through Harry, he doesn't truly care about anything he is doing or who it affects. “What matter what the cost was?” (lord Henry). I am hesitant to see how far into Dorians head Harry’s ideas seep.
ReplyDelete“Lord Henry laughed. "I don't desire to change anything in England except the weather," he answered. "I am quite content with philosophic contemplation. But, as the nineteenth century has gone bankrupt through an over-expenditure of sympathy, I would suggest that we should appeal to science to put us straight. The advantage of the emotions is that they lead us astray, and the advantage of science is that it is not emotional”. Is a great quote from chapter 3 which shows us what Lord Henry thinks. He literally doesn’t give any sympathy to anyone and has a self-centered view. He has a self-centered view because he wants the weather to change and clarifies that he’s not doing it for anyone else but himself.
ReplyDeleteIn Chapters 3 and 4 we start to see more of Oscar Wilde's life incorporated into the story. In chapter 3, Lord Henry asks his uncle about Dorian Gray’s past, the old man tells him that Dorian comes from an unhappy family with a dark history. The woman’s father, an evil old lord, who arranged to have his daughter’s husband killed just before Dorian was born. “I can sympathize with everything, except suffering.” He insists that someone’s life should be spent appreciating beauty and seeking out pleasure rather than searching for ways to get rid of pain and tragedy. The chapter ends with Dorian Gray who is particularly interested, so much so that he leaves with Lord Henry and abandons his earlier plans to visit Basil. In Chapter 4, one month later, while waiting in Lord Henry’s home for his host to arrive, Dorian discusses music with Lord Henry’s wife, Victoria. When Lord Henry arrives, Dorian rushes to him, eager to share the news that he has fallen in love. Dorian admits to discovering her while wandering through the slums, enlightened by Lord Henry’s advice to “know everything about life,”. Lord Henry comes home that night and finds a message from Dorian waiting for him. It states that he is engaged to be married to Sibyl Vane.
ReplyDelete-Zachary Mola
i have found the passed few chapters of the story went by extreamly slow. it seems as though not much is happening even though it is. i am intrigued by lord Henry and what he has to say. he seams to have a sort of commanding presence that stays in the room after he has left. he appears to be the sort of man people follow he is extremely well spoken, and is charming.
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